A (momentarily) useful kafir

I do my best to stop Western bigotry. But bigotry is big on all sides. Muslim bigotry is also blatant. And in this case, hypocritical: while linking at my posts to counter Lara Logan’s claims of rape, this guy apologises “for taking another kafir’s word” and calls me “an ignorant sub-layman who, in most cases, would have been better off keeping silent”. In most cases, but in this one that serves to his purposes.


Forums on Islam and Muslims in Western countries

3 minutes ago ·  ·  · Share
    • Témoris Grecko -Journalism page Hago lo que puedo para detener el chauvinismo occidental que promueve el odio entre culturas. Pero el chauvinismo es fuerte en todos lados, como el islámico, que es descarado. Y en este caso, además, es hipócrita: al tiempo en que cita mis artículos para rebatir a Lara Logan cuando asegura que la violaron, este tipo se disculpa ante sus lectores por “tomar la palabra de otro kafir” (kafir es una forma abusiva de referirse a los infieles) y me llama “un hombre sub-laico ignorante que, en la mayoría de los casos, estaría mejor quedándose callado”. En la mayoría de los casos, excepto en éste que conviene a sus propósitos

      A few seconds ago · 
    • Témoris Grecko -Journalism page ‎”Kafir” is a derogative word to refer to non-believers

      2 seconds ago · 

8 responses to “A (momentarily) useful kafir

  1. I forgot to thank him for kindly quoting me! 🙂

  2. Now he’s erased the “kafir” bit but kept the “sub-layman”: Last edited by ‘Abd al-Kareem; 5 Minutes Ago at 05:35 PM.

    Abd al-Kareem first wrote:

    “Before anyone condemns me for taking another kafir’s word for it…hold your horses. I don’t claim to believe this man wholeheartedly, of course. But her story is nothing but words with no proof, too. So why should her tall tale receive precedence?”

    He changed it to this:

    “Now, this is just his word versus hers, so to speak. So I don’t claim to believe this man wholeheartedly, of course. But her story is nothing but words with no proof, too. So why should her tall tale receive precedence?”

  3. 'Abd al-Kareem

    Hello Témoris Grecko!

    How are you?

    I believe you misunderstood a few things. Allow me to clarify.

    (I usually number my points. Please don’t take it as a sign of aggression; it’s just my method of gathering my thoughts otherwise they go all over the place and I lose my train of thought. Gorillas are kind of neat.)

    1. I never apologized for taking your word! Lol! I assure you, your words are quite take-able without the need to be preceded by an apology! That part of my post was (originally) in context. I had originally copied+pasted the part you quoted from another thread. Earlier in the same thread, I warned people not to be gullible and take the words of some random kafir lady who’s in the “propaganda” business (i.e., Logan) just at face-value, when she hasn’t provided any reasonable evidence.

    So, that ‘disclaimer’ (not apology) was there as a preemptive reply to anyone who would tell me “LOLZ but you just said not to take words of da kafirs and now u r doin it lols! u r idiot!”

    A while after copying that single post to its own thread, I decided to remove the disclaimer. The post was no longer in its old context. Believe me, I’m not ashamed of it, just didn’t want it to be misunderstood (as we’re seeing here). At the time, I hadn’t even known you had made this post. I just found out now, and hence here I am!

    I hope this clears things up.

    2. ‘Kafir’ is a term meaning: disbeliever. It’s not a derogatory term. It’s the opposite of ‘Mu’min’ i.e., believer. The term ‘non-Muslim’ isn’t found in the Qur’an.

    Personally, I occasionally do use the word ‘non-Muslim,’ especially if I’m dealing with a kafir (non-Muslim) audience. If they have some aversion to the word ‘kafir’ because of misinformation, I might avoid it until it can be explained.

    I hope that bit’s cleared up. It wasn’t intended to offend you, and that’s the truth of it. Up to you to accept this explanation or reject it.

    3. The ‘DISCLAIMER’ part you thought was referring to you, is actually about myself! Come on, Mr. Grecko, I’dve thought you’d have some familiarity with internet forums! It’s part of my signature on the message board. As such, it’s found under all of my posts! Go check for yourself! I’ve had it for a long time, and I must say I’m rather fond of it. It reminds myself and others of my status.

    4. I have to admit, I haven’t read your blog posts past the two I linked, however, for what it’s worth, from what I’ve seen so far I don’t consider you “an ignorant sub-layman who, in most cases, would have been better off keeping silent.”

    5. We (I’m speaking for Muslims) don’t consider every non-Muslim to be useless. But you must understand, we (not unlike yourself) have grown very weary indeed with the compound lies we’re force-fed in the media day after day. Especially as Muslims, being in the (negative) limelight most of the time. So I hope you’ll understand where the attitude/caution/rudeness was coming from. (Remember, it was originally a post in another thread re. Lara Logan and her antics.) We (I) do offer respect to people who uphold the truth with integrity.

    6. “I forgot to thank him for kindly quoting me!” – Why, you are very welcome, old chap! And you’re also welcome for the increased traffic to your website (might be like 10 or 12 visitors – give or take) and subsequent rise to fame that may or may not occur as a result. You may contact me at my e-mail for the address to which you may send my piece of the pie!


    Thank you for your time, and I hope the offense you suffered as a result of any excess from myself has subsided by now! If not then I offer you a heartfelt apology. You seem like an honest man, and I commend that.

    On a final note, I would like to invite you to learn more about Islam. You can check out http://www.islam-guide.com (which is also available in Spanish, if any readers are interested: http://www.islam-guide.com/es/) for some basic information. Please do read about it and don’t hesitate to ask whatever’s on your mind!

    If you’d like, you may e-mail me (the one I listed is real!) and we can discuss things. If I can offer anything useful, I will attempt to do so. If not, I can use big words and pretend to know what I’m talking about! (lol!)

    Sincerely (with just a bit of cheek),
    ‘Abd al-Kareem

  4. Hi Abd el-Kareem!

    Thanks for leaving your comment here.

    First of all, now I understand that the “sub-lay” thing wasn’t meant for me. I don’t usually post in forums and I wasn’t aware of that. Sorry for misunderstanding!

    You may not use the word kafir as derogative and that’s good. But too many Muslims use it like that. To their eyes, the word of a kafir doesn’t carry the same weight as the word of a Muslim person and should be taken with skepticism.

    When you wrote: “Before anyone condemns me for taking another kafir’s word for it”… well, it looks pretty much like that.

    In any case, i oppose the idea that the weight of any person’s ideas can be valued according to their religion. Ideas have a weight regardless of whether you’re Muslim, yellow or Martian.

    I bet you agree. And for what you say, you were being cautious towards misunderstanding from that forum’s participants. But I wouldn’t make such a warning if I was writing in a Christian of Agnostic or whatever forum: “Before anyone condemns me for taking another Muslim’s word for it…hold your horses.” I’d expect any intelligent participant to understand that I’m taking your word only because I consider it relevant.

    I respect and celebrate your decision to reply to me in this friendly way. I wish we could all deal with differences like this.

    Peace, brother.

  5. Pingback: Important Alleged Eye-Witness to Lara Logan "Raping"

  6. “Ideas have a weight regardless of whether you’re Muslim, yellow or Martian.”

    …or all three, like me

  7. 'Abd al-Kareem

    Heya Témoris,

    It’s no problem about the misunderstanding. I’m glad it was cleared up!

    Regarding the weight of a believer’s word vs. a disbeliever’s:

    Well, in Islam we believe the strongest bond between two people is the bond of faith. It’s stronger than the bond of nationality, skin color, even blood. And as such, it weighs heavily with us – as it should.

    It would be ridiculous for us to call each other brothers in faith, and then go around and say there isn’t really much of a difference between a believer and a disbeliever – and that we just judge all by actions, character, etc. In fact, it’s nonsensical. Because faith is part of a person’s actions and character! It’s the most important part. So it’s given a lot of weight.

    I also believe the Christian faith (and many others) have a similar strong emphasis on the bonds of faith, however many of today’s claimants to various religions don’t exactly follow their Scriptures. Many have reduced Christianity to a cross-round-the-neck and getting married in a Church, then later having a funeral there – but that’s it. However, we as Muslims see Divine Guidance to be the most important thing in our lives. And why shouldn’t it be? Can anyone have a say in a matter after God Himself has spoken? It makes no sense.

    So, this is part of the reasoning why a person’s religious views (i.e. their faith) are taken into consideration when weighing their words. It gives us a (preliminary) glimpse or idea where he or she is coming from. Plus, we as Muslims believe that our brothers in faith have rights upon us. It’s not just lip-service. Of course, there are limits. And of course, this doesn’t mean every single disbeliever’s words are useless – this goes without saying.

    With Mrs. Logan’s case – we have a situation with a lone disbelieving woman accusing 200 – 300 [presumably] believers of shameful, immoral activity. She offers little to no proof besides her own account of it. Some other evidence points to the contrary – or at least that she greatly exaggerated. I hope you see where I’m coming from.

    Also keep in mind that people will naturally stand by each other over bonds such as nationality, race, skin color, sharing a language, etc. – of course, to some degree this is acceptable and natural, but after a certain point it becomes bigotry. The beautiful thing about the bond of faith being the strongest bond is no one is excluded except out of his or her own will. Accepting Islam is a choice anyone can make – regardless of race, age, skin color, language etc.

    So anyone can become a brother or sister in faith at any time. As for bonds such as race, nationality – these easily fall into bigotry and racism because it’s either impossible or very hard for someone to enter into the circle. And those excluded from these ‘groups’ aren’t doing so by choice. I didn’t choose to be born with this skin color, so why should I be treated differently due to it?

    As for my ‘disclaimer’ which sounded bad to you, like I said, it was originally in context. In brief, I had just finished saying not to take Logan’s word without evidence, and I did mention that she was a kafir. So, right after that, I presented your blog. The immediate response of any dissidents (right before I would crush them with my iron fist!!) would be to point out the blatant contradiction. Once I had moved the post to its own thread, the disclaimer could be removed/edited – which I did do. But alas, you caught it before the edit. And I would’ve gotten away with it too, if it wasn’t for those meddling kids, and the dumb dog. (I hope you get the reference! I’m not insulting you!)

    Looking forward to your reply, in sha Allah (God willing).

    As a final note, I would like to request that you kindly edit your original post to clarify the misunderstanding. Also, my Spanish is very bad however I think I see some related Spanish text underneath your original English post. I would hate for people to get a bad impression of Islam due to this misunderstanding. I doubt many would want to read my lengthy comment which clarified things, lol! Thanks.

    ‘Abd al-Kareem

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